Hardys Bay Residents Group Inc.

Minutes

Minutes of the meeting for Hardys Bay Residents Group Inc. held at 7.30 pm Tuesday 19 February, 2008, Hardys Bay Church Hall.

Welcome:  President Adrian Williams welcomed new members and guests.

Apologies:  Jim Macfadyen, Bob Staines, Gerry Gallagher, Terry Cole, Pam & Vic Mainbridge.

Minutes of the Previous Meeting:  Minutes accepted as true and accurate record. Moved by Bill Egan and seconded by Robert Hill.

Financial Report:  $198.00 income and expenditure of $2967.79 which included $2,362.00 for outboard motor for the barge.

New memberships now $5.00 pp, $2.50 pensioner up to 30 June 08.  These funds cover running of our website and all our issues.

Business Arising from Minutes –

Clean up Australia Day – Sun  02 March 2008.  HBRG will use the barge to go around the Bay and Pretty Beach area. 

Foreshore Plan: Bill Egan advised submissions closed end of January.  After a number of meetings and everyone having slightly different views, HBRG’s collective view presented to council on behalf of residents of Hardys Bay was overwhelmingly supported at the last meeting-   

· HBRG SUPPORTS:

o Improvements necessary to improve traffic and pedestrian safety.

o Retention of the area’s unspoilt charms by maintaining as much green open space along the waterfront as possible.

o Widening of Araluen Drive marginally to improve traffic flow and safety.

o Well defined parallel parking.

o Speed restrictions particularly through the Killcare Road – Araluen Drive intersection.

o Safe and efficient turning areas to the east and west of the shops that do not adversely affect local residents.  At the Araluen Drive – Heath Road intersection, a roundabout of just sufficient size to safely handle all anticipated future traffic should be provided.  Land could be reclaimed as necessary to achieve this with safe pedestrian access past the roundabout and minimal adverse impact on local residents.

o Removal of vegetation to improve visibility at intersections, particularly at the Heath Road – Araluen Drive intersection and the Noble Road – Hardys Bay Parade intersection.

o Safe pedestrian and bicycle access around the congested intersections where Araluen Drive meets Killcare Road and where it meets Heath Road.

o Restricted parking near the shops to improve safety.

o Movement of the bus stop to a safer location.

o Appropriate but minimal signage and road markings to adequately control traffic around the shops and minimise unnecessary traffic into Araluen Drive cud-de-sac and Hardys Bay Parade

o A small mountable roundabout near the shops at the Killcare Rd – Araluen Drive intersection if this is considered the safest alternative.

o Constructions of a seawall east of Killcare Road for safety and to stop erosion.  Such a seawall should not extend as far as Blythe St and should not adversely impact on the park areas to the north-east of Blyth Street.

o Top dressing and grading of the park plus some small shade tress less than 5 metres high.  Not Casuarinas which grow too high.

• HBRG does NOT SUPPORT:

o A new playground.  A playground for children is inappropriate right text to a potentially unsafe traffic turning area and distant from public toilets. A third playground in the area is considered a waste of public funds which could be much better used to improve facilities at Turo Park, Pretty Beach and the playground east of the shops near Stanley Street.

o Gym equipment.  The proposed equipment is unnecessary, inappropriate for this area, potentially dangerous, subject to vandalism and would be a waste of money.

o Angle parking.  The proposed angle parking is potentially dangerous, uses far too much green space and does not increase the number of parking spaces significantly.

o A wide concrete path. Locals and tourists alike enjoy meandering along the open grassy foreshore of Hardys Bay and most consider a path unnecessary.  If we must have a path, it should be half normal width (no wider than 1.2 metre path recently provided around the Yum Yum tree area), should not be made of concrete and should run along the sea wall.

Marina – Michael Sparkes, CEO of Killcare Marine was unable to make the Power Point presentation due to computer problems.  This can be viewed on the website www.killcaremarina.com.au together with the current 3A proposal.

• Firstly must satisfy Dept. Lands they are capable, have a good plan and the public are in agreement.  All would have heard or seen as a direct result of the Express Advocate article a few weeks ago – impressions given may/may not be used.  Any development requires us to consult and for this level of consultation what we want is the people’s views, be it positive or negative. 
• 1989 Hardys Bay Depth Study completed by NSW Public Works – the 1967 study not accurate.  Jan 2007 our own study (happy to show anyone) showed the 1.5m depth has shifted.  The marina hasn’t put that sedimentation into the bay.  There are seagrasses not seen before, mangroves, and sedimentation deltas. 
• Bottom line is we want people to learn about the process, have an informed view and be involved.  Several objectives – floating marina berths, safe working place to provide facilities and repairs – currently no EPA facilities at all.

Q & A:

• Dredging is controlled by protection and only can only be done is areas dredged prior.  Outside this area Ministerial approval required. Depth 1.4m in 18 years – to dredge again would cost $1m or we go outside where the depth hasn’t changed in 18 years.  Only studied 1.5m depth – now 100m further out into the bay.
• Q: 100 space car parking – Do you have to dredge to get underneath plus 2.4m above marina for shops and offices?  A: Two stories not a given.  Need to put in car parking 0.5 per employee and 0.6 per berth.  Will submit ideas and alternatives to vote on.
• Discussion on how infrastructure would cope with 100 plus cars coming into the bay sighting Akuna Bay, Fenwick’s Marina, Berowra, Brooklyn marinas.
• Q: Marina berths – minimum development to make it worthwhile? A: Have 23 berths now and can use 10.  On Dept. Lands figures, 75 works – we want to see 100.  Can’t dredge because area hasn’t been done before and $1m to dredge for 23 berths doesn’t work.
• Q: For 100 boats what is the length of wharf? A:  Gosford Sailing Club has 29 berths and only uses one side.  We would use both sides – fraction shorter than this depending on layout and we want pump out and oil/water discharge for bilge pumps, coffee/restaurant, food shop and chandlery. Would go out 130m further into the bay off existing wharf.  Size of shops etc can’t tell you until be go through the process.
• Bill Egan – read proposal presented to other meetings and our meeting a year ago.  Other proposals showing 140 berths, 130m beyond and 1/3 way across the bay.  Huge variety – consistently saying 100 extra berths. HBRG want minimalist approach to the area – modernisation within the footprint is OK but to take over 1/3 of the bay – we don’t want to live in a marina.  Please define your absolute minimum that fits into the area?  A: 100 berths, car parking 0.5 per employee and 0.6 per berth plus credits given plus visitors.  The 3A process is a fair way down the track. Projects that State Govt. considers important to them – they control.  Size sensitive coastal location must be done by Govt.  State waters not owned by Gosford City Council.  Opportunity for community to talk directly.  Want to do development in stages as demand comes in.
• Q: Suggestions of taking over the Public Wharf? A: GCC controls a lot of wharves and has not got the money to look after and modernise it.  My aim is to remove it from the current location so people can get on/off on private or public land.
• Q: About pollutants going into the bay, waste, hardstand, Perspex screens and cleanliness/noise reduction? This will be an industrial marina in a little bay. A: Same as last year can’t provide environmental measures without entrapment and this can reduce pollutants going into the water.  Re-use this water. One pressure gun at any one time.
• Q: On the marina’s website is the 3A proposal.  Is this part of some formal application? A: Trying to develop alternatives – some on the website – as new ones developed will be added.
• Q: Part 3A has two pathways – 1. Project Approval or 2. Concept – which way are you going? A: Project Approval.  Dept. Planning has received our preliminary statement as to whether it complies under 3A.
• Q: In chasing deeper water, why are you more entitled to use this than other residents – what right do you have to chase it out further as siltation increases? A: Will arrest further siltation at the source with stormwater drains from the Marina.
• Rob Hill advised the HBRG Executive and Sub Committee have discussed the proposal at length. According to Council there are two types of DA’s.

Level 4 and 3A.  Level 4 required approvals from Council, Fisheries & Primary Industries, MSB, Environment & Conservation, National Resources, Dept of Planning, Dept of Lands and NSW Police.  Level 3A virtually waives level 4 and goes directly to Minister for Planning, Frank Sartour, for a decision and much shorter approval time.  As we are not fully aware of all the ramifications of a 3A DA we are obtaining expert legal advice for options and will advise all at the next HBRG meeting.  We would like to see some improvements to the existing marina that should remain within its existing footprint in terms of length, width and existing height.

• Alan Bennett spoke of developments approved under part 3A – Katherine Hill Bay’s 300 property development and urged everyone to read their website.

Facilitated process of approval by the Minister NOT Council. Seeking information on how to go about and understand 3A - we need to look at Careel Bay and Rose Bay Marina applications so when we talk with Michael we know what we are talking about.

Resolution: The Hardys Bay Residents Group is concerned about the adverse affects a larger marina would have on this community, but would support a suitable modernisation of the current marina provided its size was limited to its existing footprint and building height.  Proposed: Bill Egan seconded by Kel Gulliver.  Carried.

• Overall disappointment from lack of information supplied at the meeting and inability to show presentation.  The offer was made to have another presentation with more specific information for ALL groups.  Michael suggested bringing someone along from Dept. Planning to talk about the 3A process.
• HBRG is not part of the Environmental Assessment Team – we just keep in contact with Michael for updates.  HBRG’s input is in our statement. To communicate in writing to Michael.

Current Issue Updates

• Sports Field – Deferred to next meeting.
• Newsletter – Dec issue 1800 copies hand delivered to all houses and is available on the website.  April will be next issue 4 - 6 pages. Come along to our next meeting.
• Doggie Bags  - Council advised they would no longer supply.  Have 2-3 months supply left.  To meet with senior people at Council.  Thanks to Janet Egan and Treveen Brown who do a fantastic job in keeping these topped up.

Correspondence – Emails re foreshore development and mosquito issues letter.

Next meeting:  Tuesday 29 April, 2008, 7.30 pm Hardys Bay Church Hall.

There being no further business, the meeting closed at 9.30 pm.